(MO*) —In the African Region of the Great Lakes, the rumors are rife about General Kayumba Nyamwasa and Colonel Patrick Karegeya, two former high-level staff of Paul Kagame, who turned against him, which would prepare a new war. But nobody seems to know what are really the plans for this duo. Kayumba and Karegeya had an exclusive interview with MO *: ‘We have become prey for killers of Kagame. We know too, too! And for that reason he wants to silence us. ‘

The duo has always still highly regarded in the Rwandan army. Kayumba was one of the generals who have the most success. He was well liked by the troops for his frank and generous approach.For years, Karegeya headed the external intelligence services of Kagame in Kigali and was known as a ‘Burgundian’ firm and well documented, who felt comfortable in all settings. Both fled Rwanda and sought refuge in South Africa. Last year, Kayumba narrowly escaped an assassination attempt in his order of Kagame.
Officially, the South African authorities have defended Kayumba to give interviews because a lawsuit is pending against the perpetrators of the attack. He does not speak of it. But Karegeya can.Together with some other key figures in the Rwandan Patriotic Front (RPF) such Gerard Gahima, the former Attorney-General of Rwanda, they founded a new political party: the ‘Rwandan National Congress’ (CNR). And this organization has only one purpose: to break down and restore democracy Kagame in Rwanda.
South Africans are visibly annoyed by their presence. ‘Rwanda is a small country for them which is of little economic perspective’, says a South African academic who in the past been an adviser to Kagame. ‘But in Johannesburg, everyone knows what misery it has caused in the Congo. For this reason, it can put pressure on our government to silence the duo. But on the other hand, South Africa is experiencing a freer press than other African countries and by the courts operate fairly. So the government still must tolerate the presence of Kayumba in Karegeya. ‘
Physical encounter with Kayumba only lasts a few minutes and is limited to a brief courtesy call. By cons, we can talk for hours with him via Skype. On the other hand, Karegeya receives his guests most often in restaurants that open and busy where his bodyguards can keep an eye on. Although Kayumba was shot in the stomach last year and had to stay in hospital for months, he looks very healthy now. But to meet him, we must know Him personally. I stay six days in the country and I feel like I’m constantly followed. Obviously, for the authorities, the attack against the general, is one too many.
What you failed between two and Kagame? You were his left arm and his right arm Kayumba.
Patrick Karegeya: We were very close to Kagame and we already knew from the Ugandan army.We were part of the group of Rwandan officers preparing the invasion of Rwanda and organisions resistance to President Habyarimana. Kagame headed the intelligence services of Museveni. I myself was a lieutenant in the army of Museveni and other comrades occupied high positions in the army.
Museveni had always promised us that if we helped to put him in power, it would help us deliver Rwanda. We had no personal problems with Kagame. The RPF which we are all a part, had been founded by former comrades like Fred Rwigema, Peter Baingana by Chris Bunyenyezi. But there were other friends like Sam Kaka, Steven Ndugue and of course Kayumba Nyamwasa.
Most often, we meet in my house in Kampala. Fred Rwigema fell during the first invasion of Rwanda in 1991 and later also Bunyenyezi. Kagame and he could take advantage and have the upper hand in the organization. He was an excellent strategist. Rwigema had more charisma, but Kagame was a technocrat who has made very hard to structure the organization. At first we felt that this approach was necessary hard to rid our country and bring faster cruising speed. Do not forget that, during the war and genocide that followed, hundreds of thousands of members of our families and our clan were killed. We needed to respond effectively.
While the extremist Hutus in Congo reorganized in late 1994 and early 1995 to again destabilize our country, a national unity government was installed which sat both moderate Hutus that members of our organization. And we all hoped that it would pull the country out of the rut and restore democracy.
The leaders of the moderate Hutus who were sitting in this government have been eliminated or skillfully maneuvered against each other by figures having sworn allegiance to Kagame. The press was muzzled with the argument that the new regime would not tolerate hate newspapers or radio stations such as Radio Mille Collines. To give the impression abroad that a just legal system would be established, the gacaca courts are born and the elections that followed, were handled and corrected each time by the faithful of Kagame.
Myself, I was at the head of information services outside the country. That was my job to gather information about our enemies abroad or foreigners who spied on our country. Sometimes Kagame gave the order to open a case against completely innocent people. In reality, he just wanted to silence them.
Kayumba Nyamwasa: During the first years after the genocide, I quickly realized that we had fought to drive a dictator, but placed in power a new despot. Because I knew Kagame as well and for so long, I still thought we could start to make him see reason. But he began to react more harshly and radically to my remarks.
After the genocide, we still lived in very turbulent year in Rwanda: the Hutu extremists in Congo and reorganized the country had to be rebuilt from scratch. Thereafter, war broke out in Congo and we had to stand up to attacks by Hutu extremists from Congo. We therefore focused our attention on these problems.
But seen from here, we can say that Kagame has cleverly used the situation to strengthen its position. We all knew he could never win the election with over 90% of the vote without cheating and without putting his political opponents offside Officers who obeyed his orders without flinching were rewarded. Those who dared to contradict the great chief were pursued, killed or sent to the front.
Patrick Karegeya: In 2001, I got tired of writing reports whenever challenged by Kagame. That was my job to write the reports as objectively as possible and describe the facts as they really were.Kagame needed arguments to continue to justify its wars in Congo and I contredisais. We did not agree on other things.
So in 2001 I went to see him to tell him that I wanted to stop. I told him I wanted to become a businessman, that I would remain available for specific missions, but I did not want to take care of my full time job as head of external intelligence services. I never got an answer to this and it was in 2004 that the trouble began.
I was arrested and charged with disobeying. At first I was held incommunicado for a number of months. My wife and my kids did not even know where I was or where I was locked up. We then built a special prison just for me to Kayombe barracks near the airfield. Then my wife was able to visit me one hour a week. I stayed there for three years. And meanwhile, I did not speak to anyone.
Then suddenly, I was released. Some officers told me that friends Kagame wanted to eliminate me.So I decided to put me in safety by fleeing the country. And I ended up in South Africa.
Kayumba Nyamwasa: In 2001, Kagame wanted to put aside the stafchef army. I did not agree with him, for he had done nothing wrong. I did not agree with how he would deal with Pasteur Bizimungu, the leader of moderate Hutus and then President of the country. Bizimungu and Kagame also dared contradict this does not please him. Moreover, the general fear, the next election, Bizimungu garnered too many voices.
I was talking to Bizimungu, the man did nothing wrong. He was president of the country and therefore typically above to Kagame, then stafchef of the army and later also responsible for some minor cabinet posts. But we all knew that, behind the scenes, he wanted to control the country. With the pretext that Bizimungu had spoken with the FDLR and extremist harbored thoughts, the man was arrested.
I told Kagame that he had made a serious mistake and we argued. Since I had so much support in the army, I was spared and sent to training in the British army. I stayed one year. Then he tried to put me on a siding in appointing me ambassador to India. I have had enough time to think. I decided to go one last time in this country still talk to him. Remember that we knew long ago. But that too failed. This is why I fled abroad. Finally I ended up in South Africa. Subsequently, we have been charged with desertion and high treason. But we were well received here.
Kagame how could he succeed in monopolizing your business? He was then still not the only leader of the RPF and you would also have intervened earlier.
Patrick Karegeya: Indeed! We made ​​a big mistake! But again: in the years following the genocide, we were very busy to get the country back on track and to protect our enemies.
We can still talk at length about the war in Congo. But it is and it will remain a fact that if we had not invaded Congo, the Tutsis and moderate Hutus in that country would likely have all been killed.After the genocide, President Mobutu had no control over the Kivu provinces. There were plans to eliminate and expel the Banyamulenge Tutsis from Masisi. And this, we could not tolerate it. Yet we see that Kagame was in the process of reducing its power base and it eliminated one by one his opponents. But we wanted to resolve this problem after putting the situation in the Congo under control.
The former leaders of the RPF as Fred and Chris Rwigema Bunyenyezi enjoyed a much greater consideration in the army that Kagame. The man was not popular among the soldiers and all were afraid. He knew very well that he could consolidate his position by the iron hand. And he continued to do so. But it was from bad to worse: at first he listened again. But now he rules the country like a true despot. The few officers who support it yet, all have bloody hands. They tell him things he likes to hear.
A few days ago, he still has four senior officers placed under arrest. All officers of the first hour that made shady deals in the Congo, who did the dirty work for Kagame and the country that are completely devoted. But to control them, he must sometimes their wrists slapped. So he goes up against each other and meanwhile can sit on his throne. He also tried to criminalize all. Myself, I’m not looking abroad for crimes against humanity, but Kayumba well. Others, like Joseph and Dan Nzabamwita Munyusa too. Yet most crimes were committed by true believers of Kagame, like Jack Nziza. We refused to let murder of comrades. Nziza did it with great pleasure, because he could thus highlight to Kagame
Many things happened behind our backs and we often learn when it was too late. Until recently, Dan Munyusa was the Chief of Military Intelligence (DMI ‘Military Intelligence Division’). A few years ago, he had already mentioned that Kayumba would be a good successor to Kagame. For he had long worked with Kayumba and they got along well. Kagame told him he would be killed if he did not obey. After this incident, Munyusa was sent troops to Darfur to Rwanda African peacekeeping force. And only last year that he was fully rehabilitated.
Kagame gave the order to eliminate us. There is evidence! The interviews that he and Nziza had with the hit men were registered and are now available on You Tube. This kind of heads are completely in his power: they can not flee abroad because they would be arrested directly for crimes against humanity. And if they obey not, they will be eliminated. Munyusa therefore had to follow orders of Kagame.
The core of loyal officers around Kagame is so small and fragile that we can say that he ruled over the country like a true despot. And this is very dangerous.
But if you were yourself at the head of external intelligence services between 1994 and 2004, you yourself are also responsible for the assassinations of dissidents abroad. You still can not say you know nothing?
Patrick Karegeya: Believe me yet though! These missions were carried out behind our backs and we learn the most often only when the attacks were perpetrated.
And the former Minister Seth Sendashonga was murdered in Kenya. The real perpetrators of such attacks are not far to seek, they are all the work of Jack Nziza, the pitbull of Kagame. Our main reasons for exiting the system are obvious: we did not want anything to do with it. The mafia are not practical for us. One of the reasons why Kagame wants to eliminate us, is that we know too. He knows very well that when we will testify against him and his henchmen, he will be condemned. It is only then that we will present the evidence.
Kayumba Nyamwasa: You hit the crux of the problem! Myself, I wanted in Spain and France for crimes against humanity. In Spain, I’m wanted for an attack against three Spanish aid workers and I am also accused of involvement in shooting Habyarimana’s plane.
I still have to stay a while here in South Africa for the ongoing trial against the six accused in the attack against me. They received money from employees of Kagame to kill me. I have to testify in March. But then I go to Spain to talk to the judges. I have nothing to hide, on the contrary! And I understand that I must first make myself clear before they can lead an effective opposition against Kagame.
What I do not quite understand the French legal system is that the police inspectors do not find me here. From what they say, they do not want to talk to me that if I have something sensible to say.But how can they accuse me of wrongdoing if they believe even now that I know nothing about?
It is high time the truth comes out. Kagame knows he will be condemned when we will testify against him. That’s why he wants to kill us. Men who have come down here in South Africa were hired killers. I watched the shooter in the eye! He had no emotion for him, it’s a job like many others.Meanwhile, several key witnesses have also been purchased in this case. They withdrew their earlier statements. You can accuse us of failing to act more quickly against Kagame. But we did not agree with his approach. There will never be peace in Rwanda if such truths are not highlighted.
There is much to say about the attack against the plane of Habyarimana which triggered the genocide began. You claim that Kagame is responsible.
Patrick Karegeya: We all know. The genocide was in full swing and the MRND, the ruling Hutu extremist movement then had taken the necessary steps to put the country upside down. But it is certain that there were far fewer innocent victims if Habyarimana had yet experienced. He would never have allowed that Interhamwe also kill massively.
All senior officers of the RPF know that Kagame ordered. We also present the necessary evidence soon. It is too early now. The case has yet to be examined in more depth and if we speak too much of this, other key witnesses may also disappear.
Also, you never know with the French judges: Kagame has sent a mole in France to test the French judiciary. This person, former employee of the RPF, was wanted in France for crimes against humanity. The French have yet been unable to continue. Even worse: the role of the French army and the French government in Rwanda might be revealed. Remember that the French had driven the Interhamwe and they continued to support the regime of Habyarimana still after the genocide.Under the watchful eye of ‘Legionnaires’ thousands of Tutsis and moderate Hutus have been killed.Kagame had won.
For now, the French are friends again with him. Rose Kabuye, the lady who acted as a mole, was hero returns home to his return to Rwanda. That when she and her husband had gone too far and had themselves been so bad to see that Kagame had rejected them. The adventure in France came to her like a godsend. I must say: Kagame is a sly fox!
Kayumba Nyamwasa: Now you know why we turn away from Kagame. You can not rule a country with an iron fist and we did not want to be accomplices.

The author publishes this article under a pseudonym so as not to endanger his family and friends in Rwanda.

http://www.mo.be/fr/opinion/nous-avons-lutte-pendant-des-annees-contre-un-dictateur-et-nous-avons-mis-au-pouvoir-un-tyra
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